The Healing Stages of Women w/ TheEvolvedTherapist

Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@unfilteredfriendspodcast
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Podcast - https://unfilteredfriends.buzzsprout.com/

Contact Coco - https://www.instagram.com/theevolvedtherapist/

Transcript

[supdaily]: 0:01

talking about like the healing stages for women was like something that I was interested in learning about.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 0:07

Yes.

[supdaily]: 0:08

Yeah. And I want to learn and we'll get into like my why for this. We kind of talked

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 0:13

Mm-hmm.

[supdaily]: 0:13

about it. But yeah, bunch of questions. My audience is 87% women. So my Patreon people were sending sending some stuff in too.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 0:24

Yay, I'm

[supdaily]: 0:25

So

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 0:26

so excited. I'm really, I mean, I'm here for it. I love it and I love your message. And

[supdaily]: 0:32

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 0:32

I know I have all sorts of things to say to you about your things that you've said. So. So. So.

[supdaily]: 0:35

I

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 0:35

So. So.

[supdaily]: 0:35

know,

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 0:35

So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So.

[supdaily]: 0:36

I

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 0:36

So.

[supdaily]: 0:36

know, I knew you would.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 0:39

Mm-hmm

[supdaily]: 0:40

OK, so I'm going to do a quick intro and then I'll bring

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 0:44

Mm-hmm.

[supdaily]: 0:45

I'll bring you in. OK.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 0:46

Perfect.

[supdaily]: 0:48

Hello, unfiltered friends. Today we are learning about the healing stages of women. I think it's wonderful that I could talk to someone who has the ability to guide us in that journey. Majority of the people who listen to me are women. important for me as a man to have a better understanding of the things that I'm witnessing and how to best show up for, you know, the people I love in my life. Like, a lot of, I have a lot of women and I'm surrounded. I have a lot of women.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:19

Thank you.

[supdaily]: 1:19

I

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:19

Bye.

[supdaily]: 1:19

have a lot of, I have a lot of women in my life. Let's be clear that I love very much. So I want to learn and I hope this is helpful to you. So hello. So do we go by Coco in here?

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:31

We go by Coco in the internet world. My name's

[supdaily]: 1:35

in there.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:35

Colleen. Yeah,

[supdaily]: 1:36

Okay.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:37

but I go by Coco most places. My best friends call me Coco. So I actually

[supdaily]: 1:41

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:42

put it out there, but if I'm in a professional setting on stage, I'm Colleen Nelson. So

[supdaily]: 1:47

Uh, yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:48

it's a little bit different, but Coco is much more me

[supdaily]: 1:52

Yeah,

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:53

actually.

[supdaily]: 1:53

okay, Coco is more you. So before we get into

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:53

Yeah.

[supdaily]: 1:54

this conversation, give people your credentials for why I would ask you these questions.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:55

Yeah.

[supdaily]: 1:55

I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 2:02

Yeah.

[supdaily]: 2:02

I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 2:04

Of course. Yeah. So my name's Coco Nelson, Colleen Nelson. I've got my master's degree in counseling psychology. I'm a licensed professional counselor in Colorado. I'm also certified in EMDR, somatic experiencing, and containment resolution therapy. All of those things are basically like somatic trauma-based techniques for healing. I'm also in the middle of getting certified in

[supdaily]: 2:30

Hmm

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 2:32

absolutely lighting me up. I'm a big proponent of helping people find different modalities to heal. My online persona is the evolved therapist because I have stepped outside of the arena of therapy and into the world of somatic healing. I still have the credentials and the training of a therapist, but it expands me into a different space with retreats, with different ways we can find healing. more. And in particular, I am extremely passionate about involving the body, somatic means body in our healing process. So that's where all those credentials and trainings come from. It's just my way of learning about the body and neurobiology and how to help people heal more.

[supdaily]: 3:20

And you do, and you also do therapy while on retreat, which is not something that I had really seen. Can you explain how you got to doing that and like how it's effective for you? I'm not sure.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 3:31

Yes. Okay. So legally and ethically, I am therapeutically guiding people on a retreat. I can

[supdaily]: 3:37

Oh.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 3:37

only practice therapy in the state of Colorado.

[supdaily]: 3:42

Oh, my bad.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 3:44

Let's be clear. But

[supdaily]: 3:45

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 3:45

I mean, it is therapeutic. Yes. You know, I'm still a therapist. I'm just not clinically diagnosing people on a retreat or clinically treating them. I just have to make that clear. What I am doing is I'm creating an side of their day to day and really devote five to seven days to their healing. And I do EMDR, breath work, it's a group setting. It's usually at this point at least do women's groups. So we do a

[supdaily]: 4:15

Mm-hmm.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 4:15

lot of connecting. I typically have a 90 day program before the retreat itself just to really get to know each other and dig into some of the cognitive behavioral pieces of the therapeutic guiding.

[supdaily]: 4:27

Mm-hmm.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 4:27

And then we get there. And not only do... talk through, share, and process trauma, we also do somatic exercises to actually clear it from your nervous system and help you regulate in real time and feel what it's like to co-regulate with a group of women who are there to get raw, real, and give you a sense of belonging while you are working through your full self-expression.

[supdaily]: 4:50

Mm-hmm

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 4:50

So it's really powerful for women in general. I think men would love it too. It's not necessarily gendered per se. I think retreats But in particular, for those that identify as women, this is a opportunity to come together in sisterhood and really have a connection in a way that I think we've been doing since the dawn of time as humans.

[supdaily]: 5:12

Mm-hmm.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 5:14

So I really love that modality. It's one of my absolute favorites. And I

[supdaily]: 5:18

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 5:19

will continue to do that.

[supdaily]: 5:20

So I'm sure I'm not the first person to say this. My brain hears, here's my credentials. This is all based in science and study. And then here's all this woo-woo

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 5:28

Yeah.

[supdaily]: 5:28

stuff that you're talking about. And it's the combination of the two. What do you say to people who

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 5:30

Yes?

[supdaily]: 5:30

feel that way? The answer is no. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that. I'm saying that. I'm saying that. I'm saying that. I'm saying that. I'm saying

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 5:33

It

[supdaily]: 5:33

that.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 5:33

is.

[supdaily]: 5:33

I'm saying that. I'm saying that. I'm saying that. I'm saying that. I'm saying that. I'm saying that.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 5:36

I'm like, exactly.

[supdaily]: 5:39

Oh!

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 5:40

That's the first thing I say. And I say, you know, woo-woo has been around forever.

[supdaily]: 5:45

Mm-hmm

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 5:45

Let's just say that. It's just us trying to understand the environment and how we connect to ourselves, to the world, to the earth, to spirit, to whatever we wanna find, you know? And I would say in terms of like the woo-woo stuff that I do, it's very much the tapping back into nature and connection and, moving beyond looking at just what we have studied in a clinical office, which is and has been mainly men

[supdaily]: 6:18

Mm-hmm

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 6:19

in the psychology field up until recently, right? White men. That's what they've studied is what

[supdaily]: 6:25

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 6:25

I'm saying. And we're looking at healing modellies that have been around for generations and generations and generations. So we're just taking tradition and ritual, which is a very big part of what part of human psychology and we're combining it with the things that we're learning about the nervous system and science. Breathwork is very science oriented. It's very linked into biology, EMDR, very science oriented. And then we've got this human design, astrology, sisterhood, retreat and grief stuff that's

[supdaily]: 6:58

Mm-hmm

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 6:58

like, why not have both?

[supdaily]: 7:01

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 7:03

But I think people always want to know how they connect.

[supdaily]: 7:06

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 7:06

I think they're very interconnected. How you walk outside and feel the wind on your face and smell the air and feel connected to something beyond yourself is very connected to your sensory experience and what's happening in your brain. The difference

[supdaily]: 7:20

Mm-hmm

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 7:21

is how we understand that, which is different for everybody. And so, I think that's a great question. I think that's a great question. I think that's a great question. I think that's a great question.

[supdaily]: 7:27

Yeah. So before we get into like talking about the healing process,

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 7:32

Yeah.

[supdaily]: 7:33

I want to understand these modalities like a little bit better. I

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 7:35

please.

[supdaily]: 7:36

have, I'm, I'm pretty well versed in EMDR from a patient standpoint. That was

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 7:40

Yeah.

[supdaily]: 7:40

how I started, which I found out later was a very aggressive way to start therapy.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 7:45

That's a little

[supdaily]: 7:46

Um,

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 7:46

intense

[supdaily]: 7:47

but

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 7:47

each

[supdaily]: 7:47

that's,

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 7:47

of them.

[supdaily]: 7:47

that's kind of how I go. I was so ready. And that's when

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 7:50

Yeah.

[supdaily]: 7:50

my therapist said to me, he's like, you were just here and you're like,

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 7:54

Mm-hmm.

[supdaily]: 7:54

here's what I'm going through. Let's work through it. So.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 7:57

Yes, yes.

[supdaily]: 7:58

I learned immediately to not have anything scheduled right after a EMDR session because it really

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 8:03

Yeah.

[supdaily]: 8:03

really rocks me so Explain what EMDR is and why it's so intense and what purpose it would serve like if someone was trying to work through something Like

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 8:12

Oh.

[supdaily]: 8:12

why would you recommend EMDR to them?

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 8:14

Yeah, absolutely. So as simple as I can make it, EMDR is a therapeutic intervention where we take three different kinds of tools. So it can either be auditory, it can be tactile, or it can be eye movements. And

[supdaily]: 8:32

Hmm.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 8:33

what it is is we're bilaterally stimulating you. So it's going back and forth.

[supdaily]: 8:37

between

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 8:37

So,

[supdaily]: 8:38

left and right brain.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 8:39

correct.

[supdaily]: 8:40

Okay.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 8:41

And so I like using what I call the buzzies, that's tactile.

[supdaily]: 8:44

That's what

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 8:44

So

[supdaily]: 8:45

I

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 8:45

it's

[supdaily]: 8:45

used, yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 8:45

like buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz. There's different frequencies and strengths and it varies depending on the clinician and what you're processing. And what happens is when you experience a traumatic event, which is your body's perception of something that's a threat to your survival. It's very basic, right? Like

[supdaily]: 9:07

Mm-hmm

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 9:07

it can be a bunny looking at you strange and making a weird noise. Like that can be a traumatic event for your body. It's, unfortunately, always get to make the decision on what our body views is traumatic, especially

[supdaily]: 9:17

No.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 9:18

in our younger years. So what happens is when that occurs, your body stores it in a particular part of your brain, in your hind brain, in order to keep you prepared and ready in case you see that scary bunny again, right? Because the point is to survive. You

[supdaily]: 9:38

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 9:38

touch a hot stove, you want to immediately feel the hotness on your fingers anytime you get near the stove again. like actually feel it in your fingers so that you retract before you even touch it. It's

[supdaily]: 9:49

Mm-hmm

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 9:49

a protective mechanism. So it stores the memory with sensation as if you're re-experiencing it.

[supdaily]: 9:58

Hmm.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 9:59

This works when you're, you know, fighting a tiger or touching a hot stove. It works well, but it doesn't work when it's relational trauma or things that you've outgrown

[supdaily]: 10:10

Mm-hmm.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 10:10

or things that are no longer a threat to call those type of memories, maladapted memories. And EMDR helps us pull those memories up into your frontal cortex from your hindbrain and store the information and then release the sensation. So you can remember the memory, but you no longer feel it in your body when you do.

[supdaily]: 10:37

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 10:38

So it takes the like sting out of the memory. It's still... It can still be a sad or hard memory, right? You can

[supdaily]: 10:45

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 10:46

still emot about it, but it's not as triggering and it releases your nervous system to be more in the present moment instead of consistently being into these past memories that really aren't relevant anymore to your present circumstances.

[supdaily]: 11:02

What would you define it as a trigger? It's a word that gets thrown around quite a bit now from

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 11:06

Yeah.

[supdaily]: 11:06

a clinical standpoint. How

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 11:08

Yeah.

[supdaily]: 11:08

do you guys define triggers?

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 11:10

I think it's just something that your body is telling you that's uncomfortable.

[supdaily]: 11:14

Okay, let me explain

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 11:15

Yeah.

[supdaily]: 11:16

how I explain EMDR to people and

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 11:18

Yeah.

[supdaily]: 11:18

tell me if I am on the money because I don't want to continue to say this if it's incorrect. Okay,

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 11:23

Okay.

[supdaily]: 11:24

so in EMDR, you essentially just go in and dredge up all of your most traumatic memories and relive them and try to reframe them in a way that affects you less. So

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 11:35

Thank you.

[supdaily]: 11:35

what happens is, this is short term over here and this is long term over here and there's this pickup truck. That picks up the memories from here. and takes it and stores it into long term. And a lot of the times when the pickup truck is on its way to long term, memories will fall off the back of the truck. And for the most part, those aren't memories that are important, but sometimes they're traumatic memories. And that to me is what a trigger is. It's an unprocessed traumatic moment that hasn't found its way home. So essentially, you drive another pickup truck over, pick it up, clean it up, and then put reframe with different wording how you view it. Okay, this

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 12:21

So,

[supdaily]: 12:21

is why I asked.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 12:23

I think that it's relatively true. I wouldn't really necessarily say you take it from short term to long term because I think it's stored in neither.

[supdaily]: 12:33

Mmm.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 12:34

It's stored in a place in your hindbrain for survival. It's like your quick reflexes. And it is very effective. Your body is doing something to help you. The problem is that it hasn't necessarily been able to update its system. system. What happens with mammals in the wild is that they don't have as much PTSD as we do because after an event happens they allow their bodies to reset, which

[supdaily]: 13:02

Mmm.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 13:02

means their body reassesses the environment for the current threat, recognizes there is no current threat, and then stores the memory appropriately.

[supdaily]: 13:11

Hmm.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 13:12

Human beings and in particular, animals with large frontal cortexes stop that process. So there's more to this that we could get into and I won't right now because that's like a whole seminar

[supdaily]: 13:24

It's a

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 13:24

I

[supdaily]: 13:25

lot,

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 13:25

can teach.

[supdaily]: 13:25

yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 13:25

Yeah. But what's really important is we don't ever want to think that these memories are bad or stored in the wrong way. They're just stored in a way that no longer actually helps you.

[supdaily]: 13:39

Yes.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 13:39

And we need to just update that system. It's like you're updating your browser.

[supdaily]: 13:43

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 13:44

And yes, you're reframing it. It is a cognitive exercise, more than anything else, it's literally just releasing the sensation, like the five senses that are associated with that memory. So if that scary bunny looked at me and I felt panic in my check, like a tightness in my chest and heat in my body. And then every time I saw a bunny anywhere in the world, I felt that in my body. EMDR would make it so I could see a bunny out in the world and not feel that tightness and heat in my chest anymore. I may

[supdaily]: 14:17

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 14:17

still not like bunnies, like I'm gonna die because a bunny looked at me.

[supdaily]: 14:22

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 14:23

And that, so the trigger is when you experience something that your frontal cortex is like, that's not a threat, but your body is like, yes it is, that's a trigger.

[supdaily]: 14:35

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 14:35

And this is connected to anxiety and depression and all sorts of stuff. So I think you're on the money to a degree. I would just really highlight the fact that you release the sensational part of the memory and you store the information.

[supdaily]: 14:53

Yeah, I still remember. It's like I don't get to undo all of those things I worked on. I'm just not rocked by it anymore.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 15:00

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So the way I describe it to clients is they say, I'm going into your brain and your memory bank is like a library and all of the books are all over the floor and some pages are ripped out and we're just like putting it back together. So that

[supdaily]: 15:14

Beautiful.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 15:14

if you want to go open the book, you can see it, you know.

[supdaily]: 15:17

It is what it is. It's like dwelling on it has not served me. And what

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 15:23

Yeah.

[supdaily]: 15:23

I found is I was very reactive

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 15:26

Right,

[supdaily]: 15:26

in so

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 15:26

yeah.

[supdaily]: 15:27

many ways I would just like fly off. And I had the reason I sought to work it out is someone was like, whoa, you just got really upset over something pretty small. And

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 15:39

Mm-hmm.

[supdaily]: 15:39

I was like, oh, but not everyone would have that reaction. So I also understand having resistance to that because that is something that has protected me time but that threat isn't there. My therapist said it was like, it's like the black box on a plane. Like once

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 15:53

Yeah.

[supdaily]: 15:53

the plane stops flying, it doesn't update anymore. So it's up to you to like open it up and be like, okay, so maybe

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 15:59

Yes.

[supdaily]: 15:59

the black box will be anyway. Okay, somatic,

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 16:01

Hahaha.

[supdaily]: 16:02

somatic. So now explain somatic.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 16:05

Yeah, somatic is soma, which is body. So it is centered around the body.

[supdaily]: 16:11

Mm-hmm.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 16:12

That's

[supdaily]: 16:12

I mean,

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 16:12

it.

[supdaily]: 16:13

but like explain how you do it.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 16:16

Like somatic what? Somatic like, oh, okay, okay.

[supdaily]: 16:18

Healing.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 16:20

Can I combine it with the healing?

[supdaily]: 16:21

Sorry, I don't know, I'm learning. Heh

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 16:23

Sematic

[supdaily]: 16:23

heh

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 16:23

means body. I don't know how to tell you.

[supdaily]: 16:25

heh.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 16:26

Sematic healing. I'm healing your body. I'm healing your nervous system. I'm basically teaching you how to regulate your nervous system.

[supdaily]: 16:32

Hmm

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 16:33

Regulation means you can move from a heightened state to a depressive state with fluidity.

[supdaily]: 16:40

Hmm, okay

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 16:42

You have choice in that and it doesn't, you don't get stuck.

[supdaily]: 16:45

Yeah, I feel like a lot of people don't feel like they have a choice. Like it's just something thrust upon them that they have that is forever.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 16:52

Yeah.

[supdaily]: 16:52

So if someone feels like they don't have choice

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 16:55

Thank you.

[supdaily]: 16:55

in that, like, what do you say to them?

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 16:58

I say, well, let's get you to a point where you do.

[supdaily]: 17:00

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 17:01

Because that is part of what peace and contentment and healing and fulfillment gives you is this feeling of I can experience hard things in life

[supdaily]: 17:13

Thank you. Thank you.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 17:14

and I can experience joyful things in life and I can bring myself back to a baseline no matter what happens and know that I'm gonna be okay. And that is extremely powerful to feel. It's not a thought, it's a feeling. is it gives you the most self-confidence and self-esteem and ability to connect, ability to deeply love. There's all sorts of beautiful things that comes with regulation.

[supdaily]: 17:40

Yeah. So I think it's wonderful that you have like a combination of the two, because I think it's important. I

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 17:44

Mm-hmm.

[supdaily]: 17:44

think we focus on science-based things, which I understand because

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 17:50

Mm-hmm.

[supdaily]: 17:50

it's tangible. It's something that we can point to and that we grasp and some things just are in the combination of the two. I think it's

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 17:57

Yeah.

[supdaily]: 17:57

a wonderful thing. So

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 17:59

Absolutely.

[supdaily]: 17:59

the purpose of today's conversation is to understand the healing stages of women and how I would like to understand, like, when they're in these stages, behaviorally, and how can you get yourself maybe, I don't know, I don't know if I want to say to the next stage, but like get yourself through the healing process for some of the things that

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 18:20

Mm-hmm

[supdaily]: 18:20

you're going through. So just give me a summary for right now. What are the healing stages for women?

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 18:28

So I'm going to be extremely generalized right now when I wanna have a caveat on that,

[supdaily]: 18:35

You kind

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 18:35

okay?

[supdaily]: 18:35

of have to be here.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 18:36

Yeah, everybody is different. Everyone has a different healing process, period. But to generalize, in particular, if a woman is healing from a traumatic experience, I'm gonna say that out loud. And I think we all have traumatic experiences. So if a woman is healing from a traumatic experience, and I would say men probably have this process too. I don't think it's gendered, specific to women in terms of how it applies to them for this,

[supdaily]: 19:01

Mm-hmm.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 19:01

this conversation. So the first step is, is actually very much like shock or denial. I find that for a lot of us, culturally, psychologically, survivalistically, we kind of have to just compartmentalize and push it away. Especially if the experience happened in your youth and you didn't have the resources or tools to really get through it or help yourself through it. If you did have the resources or tools, you might just like breeze through this, right? This might just be like a shock to this.

[supdaily]: 19:31

Mm-hmm.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 19:31

But for many of us, we experienced something and then we denied that it's even a thing. Like, I remember so many experiences in my junior high or like sixth grade year that were so bad.

[supdaily]: 19:46

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 19:46

Like, and I was like, meh, it's just part of it. It's just part of life. And I just didn't even, I didn't even acknowledge that it was something that was traumatic and difficult for me. Thanks.

[supdaily]: 19:58

How does that serve someone? Just,

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 20:00

so that they can get

[supdaily]: 20:01

mm.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 20:01

through it. If they can't heal, they don't have an empathic witness. If they don't have the tools to process it, they compartmentalize it, and they move to the next thing. They refocus their energy, and that allows them to go to school and finish school and have some joy when joy happens. I mean, obviously it seeps into other places, depending on what it is, but it still gives us the opportunity to live our lives as humans. That's why people in war zones can still, laugh and have fun and be with each other and

[supdaily]: 20:33

Mm-hmm

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 20:33

enjoy life is because they can compartmentalize. You know, they're not just like living in that space the whole time.

[supdaily]: 20:38

Yeah, I noticed that nurses in particular are very good, have very dark humor,

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 20:44

Oh yeah.

[supdaily]: 20:44

because they have to see a lot of things, you know?

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 20:47

Yes, yes. Any first responders, I think, are,

[supdaily]: 20:50

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 20:50

they compartmentalize like a boss and hence the need for trauma therapy later.

[supdaily]: 20:56

Mm-hmm

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 20:57

So denial, shock, you know, however we want to say that compartmentalization is not necessarily unhealthy, it's just a, it's a phase. The next phase of healing is what we call the actual like victim stage. This is where you identify that you were a victim. This is very

[supdaily]: 21:12

you

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 21:13

validating, right? Like we need to understand that what happened was not okay. I was a victim of something, right? Something happened to me. I'm obviously always and forever responsible for my response to that very thing, right? But in that moment, I was a victim, and especially if it was in childhood, right? Like

[supdaily]: 21:31

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 21:31

it ramps it up just a little bit more. But like that acknowledgement is so profound for people in therapy. This is what talk therapy is really good for, CBT, cognitive behavioral therapy, where they're like, oh, wow. that boy said this to me and then I felt this way and then I experienced that like that wasn't okay. That was actually traumatic. That was actually

[supdaily]: 21:57

you

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 21:58

abusive or you know whatever words you want to you want to use in that stage to help you understand that you were wronged. And we'll get into what happens in that stage when people are in it right and

[supdaily]: 22:09

Mm-hmm

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 22:09

how they react to people. So a very simple one. I'll just use an example for me since it's just easy to kind of through it, right?

[supdaily]: 22:18

Okay.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 22:19

I had this young man come into my school in sixth grade and he was very troubled, had a lot of stuff going on in his life at home and was just not okay. He was just not okay internally. And so he was, he kind of terrorized the girls. And I remember sitting there and he lined us all up and he said he was going to have a make out contest and whoever kissed the best was going to be like his girlfriend.

[supdaily]: 22:41

Hmm.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 22:42

And he was really good looking and you know all the girls wanted I'd never been kissed before. Right?

[supdaily]: 22:50

Thank you. Thank you.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 22:50

And this ends up being, you know, my first experience, we're all lined up. It was, I mean, talk about, are you kidding

[supdaily]: 22:58

How

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 22:58

me?

[supdaily]: 22:58

old? How old are you at this point?

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 23:00

Sixth grade, so that would be 11?

[supdaily]: 23:02

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 23:03

Yeah, like, no.

[supdaily]: 23:05

No.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 23:07

No, and I've had talks with him as an adult, don't you

[supdaily]: 23:11

I'm

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 23:11

worry.

[supdaily]: 23:11

sure.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 23:13

But like this happened and it was embarrassing and sad and scary and extremely traumatic. And I just was like, whatever, and like pushed it to the side. But what ensued from there is the girls kind of ostracized me, pushed me away. I ended up going into seventh grade with no friends. There's a lot of things that went for that. So anyways, when I finally identified I was a victim in that place, I was like, ooh. So one of my cor-wounds is not being chosen. And I'm not being chosen because I'm not performing and I'm not sexually performing. So

[supdaily]: 23:46

Thank you. Thank you.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 23:46

I am. Yeah, right?

[supdaily]: 23:48

You that's me I do I did that and

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 23:52

Yeah.

[supdaily]: 23:52

I did I thought it was empowering I thought I was like oh man I'm just but in reality after after the drug of the validation would wear off. It was just hollow

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 24:06

Oh, so hollow.

[supdaily]: 24:07

And you chase that high

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 24:08

Mm-hmm.

[supdaily]: 24:09

over and over again and you just lose parts of yourself along the way until you don't

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 24:13

Oh

[supdaily]: 24:13

even

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 24:13

yeah,

[supdaily]: 24:13

know who you are.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 24:15

absolutely. And that's the shame then kicks in, right? Like who am I, what have I done, what am I doing? Yes, a lot of recovery from that

[supdaily]: 24:23

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 24:24

in my 20s. So that was a really painful piece for me. I was performing, I will say sexually, I'm gonna put it on quotations because it wasn't sex all the time. It was kissing, it was being flirty, it was being easy. It was being like whatever, like that kind of girl to be

[supdaily]: 24:40

Mmm.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 24:41

enticed, to be chosen, to be loved. especially by men, but also by women, just like

[supdaily]: 24:46

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 24:46

that was what I was supposed to be. So in identifying that, and this is one of many instances, but I would say this is a primary one, I was like, ooh, I was a victim of that. That was not okay. What he did was wrong. What the girls did alongside me was wrong. Like this was not okay. Then I got to be angry and I got to be upset and I got to be sad and I got to feel those emotions. So then we move from victim to survivor.

[supdaily]: 25:16

Hmm

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 25:19

Survivor is where we tap into our power. We tap into our boundaries. We tap into our rage. And we are like, yeah, that happened to me, but never again. I'm never gonna let that happen again. And this is, I see this with a lot of millennial women where it's a reactionary response to the way that we came up in the 2000s, right? With Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera

[supdaily]: 25:47

It's just hyper, hyper sexualized, crazy.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 25:51

Exactly. So our response is, fuck you. Oh sorry, is this, can I cast on here?

[supdaily]: 25:56

You can cut, that's fine.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 25:57

Okay, okay, because I just straight up did. Okay.

[supdaily]: 25:59

But what I'm noticing is these stages, I'm noticing, I'm now understanding these stages post Me Too.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 26:08

Yes.

[supdaily]: 26:09

Cause before Me Too was denial, during

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 26:11

Yep.

[supdaily]: 26:11

Me Too it was a victim. And then

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 26:14

Yep.

[supdaily]: 26:14

after the dust had settled, now it's survivor, and it's really explaining the vitriol that I have been witnessing, it makes a lot of sense. And so, I'm gonna go ahead and say that I'm not a victim of the past, but I'm not a victim of the past. I'm not a victim of

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 26:21

Yes,

[supdaily]: 26:21

the past.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 26:22

it does. And it's, you know, there's a point in which you'll, and the next stage is my favorite, but there's

[supdaily]: 26:27

OK. OK.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 26:27

a point in which we have to like be angry, right?

[supdaily]: 26:30

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 26:30

And we do, I think the hard part is when we project that at the wrong people

[supdaily]: 26:35

Mm-hmm.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 26:35

or project that at men in general,

[supdaily]: 26:38

Yes.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 26:38

right? We project that at masculinity in general, not even men just masculinity. For a lot of women, we became overly masculine because we were afraid. So to be feminine to me, femininity is to be the magnet, to be a tease, to have fun, to be like come hither, you know? Like

[supdaily]: 26:56

Mm-hmm

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 26:57

and that's it's beautiful. Men can do that too but like that's a really innate part of a woman but that felt traumatic to me

[supdaily]: 27:04

Hmm.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 27:05

because what happened is I did that and then I was I wasn't actually able to protect myself with my masculine side of boundaries. I couldn't have one or the other. So then I over-masculinated and was like I will pursue you, you

[supdaily]: 27:17

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 27:17

will be mine, you know or And then we're like, whoa, I mean, okay, but like, no.

[supdaily]: 27:26

Run!

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 27:27

Yes, yes, or I attracted the wrong ones, right?

[supdaily]: 27:30

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 27:30

So this, and a lot of women go through this, they're like, I'm strong, I'm powerful, I'm smart, I'm intelligent, why don't men want me? And it's like, yeah, but you also, you can be all those things and soft and kind and open and tender, like we need masculine and feminine in everybody, right? And so, yeah, I think

[supdaily]: 27:46

Yeah,

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 27:46

that's it. I think

[supdaily]: 27:46

and

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 27:46

that's

[supdaily]: 27:46

I

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 27:46

it.

[supdaily]: 27:46

think we all too often societally now say masculine as male and feminine as female, but to me they're just energies that exist within both men and women.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 27:55

Absolutely, absolutely.

[supdaily]: 27:56

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 27:57

And they play out differently in different types of relationships and with different people, right?

[supdaily]: 28:01

Mm-hmm.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 28:01

But I think that we need to access both. We do. And when we don't have one turned on, right, then we're overusing the other one. So we're attracting people who are doing the opposite.

[supdaily]: 28:14

Mm-hmm

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 28:15

So then comes, so as you work through that stage in a healthy way,

[supdaily]: 28:20

Thank you. Bye.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 28:21

you would be doing EMDR. You would be really working through like movement-based. things. And I mean, like, like dance is a really big powerful thing for me. I did kickboxing for a while during this time, like just like, you know, like feeling the action of what I wish I could go back and do, which is

[supdaily]: 28:36

Mm-hmm.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 28:36

face push him, right?

[supdaily]: 28:38

Yeah,

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 28:38

Which I could.

[supdaily]: 28:40

I like the two finger forehead

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 28:42

The two figure forehead. Yes,

[supdaily]: 28:43

Just like

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 28:44

exactly.

[supdaily]: 28:44

go go away

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 28:49

And so once you get to that, and you find some healing around that, and you're no longer angry, like I can now see he was a hurt little boy as well.

[supdaily]: 28:59

Hmm

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 29:00

You know, he's an 11 year old boy. That's a child.

[supdaily]: 29:03

That's compassion.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 29:04

Yes, so you tap into the person behind

[supdaily]: 29:08

Hmm.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 29:08

the perpetrator, the empathy, right? And it's not like I'm forgiving him or letting him off the hook. It's more like I'm understanding the why. And when that happens, it depersonalizes it for me. It's not like he was trying to hurt me. He was just trying to feel power and a very powerless in his life. And he probably has suffered far more than I have at this point in who he has become and who he is. So there's a level of just like letting that go. And what ends up happening is you then step into some acceptance and the advocacy phase. This

[supdaily]: 29:47

Okay.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 29:47

is where we want to be the women who walk other women through those stages and that fire. And we help them get to a place where they can be. where they're not defining their lives by this anymore. And they can find joy and belonging and happiness and love and not have to just live in this space all the time. And I find that a lot of people put themselves in the healer therapist coach role before they're here.

[supdaily]: 30:19

Man, some of the coaches I see, and you're on TikTok now, so like you see

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 30:22

Yes.

[supdaily]: 30:23

it too, I'm just like, whoa, why are you giving this advice? It is so incredibly damaging is because they're not guiding people to healthy things. They are validating the toxic ideas they already have for the sake of attention for their business, which is emotional manipulation in my

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 30:42

Yeah.

[supdaily]: 30:42

eyes. It's really sad and kind of gross. It's hurting people.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 30:46

It's hurting people and they're just, they're stuck in a stage and they can't see it. I think that's the really tough part is like, they can't see it. Like I don't think the intention is malicious. The intention isn't manipulative. The intention is to help, but when you're not in a place that you've healed it, right, experiencing trauma is not the same as being trauma informed.

[supdaily]: 31:06

Hmm.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 31:06

They're not the same.

[supdaily]: 31:08

Okay.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 31:09

And so you have to actually work through your trauma, then get trained through their trauma

[supdaily]: 31:17

Yes.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 31:18

before you can be trauma informed, period. Like, and so what's happening is because trauma is a buzzword, people are talking about it, people naming it, people are using it all over the place, but they're not doing it in a way that's leading people through it. They're doing it in a way that's poking people to yes, get validation for themselves, which

[supdaily]: 31:38

Mm-hmm,

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 31:39

we all want that,

[supdaily]: 31:40

of course.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 31:40

but also because it's the stage that they're stuck in. It's the only way they know through what happened. And if they were to move beyond that stage, like if I look back at myself when I was in victim and when I was in survivor, I did in said things that are definitely not aligned with who I am.

[supdaily]: 31:59

Mm-hmm

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 32:00

And so I have compassion and empathy for that girl that was in that space, but I also have to have ownership around the way I treated people then or the things I said or the things I did. So I think this is part of growth, right? We all work through this and get to the other side that we can all land an advocacy really is the goal.

[supdaily]: 32:20

Yeah. What would you say? Because I see a lot of people, we kind of touched on a little bit, in like leadership roles that are trying to

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 32:29

Mm-hmm.

[supdaily]: 32:29

lead, especially women through a lot of the pain and understanding and empowerment. How does someone identify a healthy leader versus just

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 32:39

Yeah.

[supdaily]: 32:39

someone who is essentially weaponizing their audience to validate their pain?

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 32:45

Does your nervous system feel common regulated when you hear them speak?

[supdaily]: 32:50

Hmm.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 32:51

If you feel triggered, good or bad, if you feel like, when they're speaking all the time, we're talking about somebody that's usually in Survivor.

[supdaily]: 33:03

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 33:03

Right, if you feel activated and then calmed, we're like, okay, okay, so you know my pain and you know how to regulate me. when you're in their presence. How does it feel in your body when you listen to them speak? You know, do like be exposed to them in a bunch of different environments, not just the clip on TikTok, right? Like

[supdaily]: 33:26

Mm-hmm.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 33:26

join their free masterclass or watch a course of theirs. What does it feel like in your body? If they are regulated humans, they're gonna appear that way. Maybe their TikTok went viral because they did poke, you know? But then

[supdaily]: 33:39

Mm-hmm

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 33:39

you go and you go to their masterclass and you're like, oh wow, okay, they are very regulated. I could work with them. Also, just dip your toe in. Don't jump all the way and don't pay 10 grand to work with a coach before

[supdaily]: 33:52

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 33:52

you've actually been in front of them and in their energy.

[supdaily]: 33:58

Yeah, I find that people who position themselves as educators or leaders, but lead with anger at all points in time, generally, there's never really a whole lot of progress that has happened, but they find a lot of people who are also the same kind of angry and become actually like pretty powerful groups at times, you know, and it's, uh, yeah, it's interesting. I'm trying.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 34:22

It is. And we're going to see that everywhere. I mean, it's not just in this world, it's in every world, it's in any sort of leadership position. You, as a leader, you are called to a higher standard. You need to consistently and constantly do your work and regulate and have mentors and people who are calling you on your shit. And if you don't, you will not be a great leader, period.

[supdaily]: 34:47

Yeah. Accountability is a very, and introspection

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 34:51

Yes.

[supdaily]: 34:51

are very important aspects of that. Cause I found that, uh, a lot of the behaviors that I had, I was also exhibiting so until I, I mean, a lot of the behaviors I was calling out, I was also exhibiting within myself. So I had to take a step back and be like, Hey, I'm doing this too. Why is it okay that I do it?

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 35:10

Yeah.

[supdaily]: 35:11

But not okay that they do it. The answer is it's not okay that I do it either.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 35:14

Yeah,

[supdaily]: 35:15

And

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 35:15

yes.

[supdaily]: 35:15

I have some healing to do.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 35:17

Yes, yes, exactly.

[supdaily]: 35:19

So say someone is listening, they listen to the stages of healing for women,

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 35:23

Mm-hmm.

[supdaily]: 35:24

but they want to ease your way to identify what stage they're in.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 35:28

Mm-hmm.

[supdaily]: 35:28

Can we go through the stages and like really pinpoint typical

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 35:32

Simple.

[supdaily]: 35:32

behaviors that you see within each stage? So let's

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 35:35

Yes.

[supdaily]: 35:35

start with the, what was the first one? Denial?

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 35:38

Denial, shock,

[supdaily]: 35:39

Mm hmm.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 35:39

shock, yeah. You don't understand why you do the things that you do. You react, things happen, you get frustrated, you feel things and you're like, I don't understand this.

[supdaily]: 35:51

Hmm.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 35:52

You feel very confused by your own behavior and very frustrated by it. I would say that

[supdaily]: 35:54

Okay.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 35:54

would be number one. I would say that would be number one. I would

[supdaily]: 35:56

Mm-hmm.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 35:56

say that would be number one. I would say that would be number one.

[supdaily]: 35:59

Okay, next stage is victim.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 36:01

Um, you are feeling a lot of emotions at once, like an overwhelm of them. It's almost like you can't stop yourself from feeling angry, sad, frustrated. They come in waves and you are really struggling with identifying your ownership. Right? You're

[supdaily]: 36:21

Thank you.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 36:21

seeing almost, you feel as almost the world is like the world is out to get you. Like everything has caught, like the way people are acting, the way the world is acting towards you. It's like, They're coming for ya.

[supdaily]: 36:34

Hmm. Okay. And then survivor.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 36:38

Oh, one more thing with the victim too, you feel

[supdaily]: 36:39

Oh,

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 36:39

broken.

[supdaily]: 36:40

broke.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 36:41

You feel broken.

[supdaily]: 36:42

Okay.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 36:42

Yeah, yeah. Simply put.

[supdaily]: 36:46

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 36:46

Survivor, you are closed off, defensive. Find yourself, like your primary emotion would be anger.

[supdaily]: 36:57

Hmm.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 36:59

You may be the ultra-independent. You're not really interested in deep intimate connection. You're very happy being on your own. bit with the vulnerability that it takes to be intimate with people. Maybe you dip your toe in, but as soon as it requires more of you or something trust

[supdaily]: 37:19

Mm-hmm.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 37:19

with the other person, you quickly pull back or you find ways that the other person is messing up.

[supdaily]: 37:25

Hmm

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 37:26

So you're kind of constantly on the defense.

[supdaily]: 37:28

Okay, and then advocate advocacy.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 37:32

Um, you, you find yourself mostly in a peaceful place. Like most of your day is relatively common, peaceful things happen. You navigate them, but you come back to kind of a state of peace. It's not like bliss happiness all the time. Please understand that it's just like chill.

[supdaily]: 37:53

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 37:53

And, but you find yourself craving something more like meaning.

[supdaily]: 37:58

Hmm

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 37:58

You want to deepen your meaning in your life. You're kind of bored with your or you don't, you just want to make a difference. And you can't figure out really how or where and you feel that kind of burning inside of you. So, I'm going to go ahead and do that. I'm going to go ahead and do that.

[supdaily]: 38:13

Yeah. I'm from listening to the different stages. I'm finding that especially on social media, it seems like a lot of people are in survivor. I mean,

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 38:26

Mm-hmm.

[supdaily]: 38:26

does that feel accurate to you?

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 38:29

I think we have a lot of people who are in survival or survivor or denial.

[supdaily]: 38:38

denial.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 38:39

Yeah, they've experienced the traumatic event, but they're like, now I'm fine. I'm totally

[supdaily]: 38:43

Mm-hmm.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 38:43

good.

[supdaily]: 38:45

Yeah

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 38:45

I self led myself through that. I self led my healing. I read Brené Brown and now I'm good. And we're like, okay, all

[supdaily]: 38:55

Yeah,

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 38:55

right, all right.

[supdaily]: 38:55

I found that after therapy that sometimes instead of feeling my feelings, I would intellectualize them and not feel them. And that I feel like that doesn't, that didn't help me progress at all. It just felt good in the moment.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 39:08

Yeah, it helped you compartmentalize, which

[supdaily]: 39:10

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 39:10

is a great tool, but you're not somatically healing. You're not healing your nervous system and your body.

[supdaily]: 39:15

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 39:16

You're just finding a different way to deal with it in your brain.

[supdaily]: 39:20

Yeah, I found that I think is beautiful the way society has shifted to bring women more into an equal standing in society. We still have a lot of work to do, but we're definitely further than we were.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 39:33

Absolutely.

[supdaily]: 39:33

With that, I've noticed though is, um, is a, it's a, it's a independence, but it's also like aggressive and kind of mean at times.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 39:43

Mm-hmm.

[supdaily]: 39:44

And I'm struggling to like be there and support. Uh, when I'm also consistently under attack

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 39:55

Mm-hmm

[supdaily]: 39:55

as well. And I'm not sure, I'm trying to figure out how to be supportive and understanding while also having a boundary for how people treat me.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 40:04

Yeah.

[supdaily]: 40:05

So I'm wondering like if someone is in that stage where they're like hyper independent, don't need anybody,

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 40:10

Mm-hmm.

[supdaily]: 40:11

you're the problem, go away. It's our turn to talk, which is the things that I'm hearing. What do I, how do I navigate that in a way triggering to them, but also like protects me.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 40:23

Mm-hmm. So if we're, it depends on the arena you're in. So I'll

[supdaily]: 40:28

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 40:28

say that out loud. Okay. So for talking social media, for

[supdaily]: 40:31

This

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 40:31

talking

[supdaily]: 40:31

is Talk

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 40:32

like,

[supdaily]: 40:32

Social Media for now.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 40:33

for talking social media, I would say it's a big wide net, the internet. And sometimes we just have to block and unfollow.

[supdaily]: 40:43

Mm-hmm

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 40:44

And they are empowered to do so as well. So there are just some things you just completely disengage,

[supdaily]: 40:50

Thank you. Thank you.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 40:50

which I think is, is you're right and they're right. We don't need to fight every single battle with each other.

[supdaily]: 40:56

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 40:57

But I think as a, you know, white cis male on social media, acknowledging that there are pieces of this that you don't understand, and that you will always seek to understand better. But you're also going to be, you're going to own your own nervous system regulation.

[supdaily]: 41:20

Thank you.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 41:20

And in order for you to stay have to end conversations or set certain boundaries or say certain things in order to protect yourself. And if that person finds it to be triggering or inappropriate, then they are welcome to set a boundary as well and step away. You're not forcing anybody to be in your arena or to be in your world. And we get the right to walk a different path.

[supdaily]: 41:47

Mm-hmm

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 41:48

That doesn't mean you have to be silent and not share your opinions, but I do think a time important for all of us. I'm not going to step in a room full of, you know, people of color and say, I have an opinion about this that I'm going to share. I,

[supdaily]: 42:02

Mm-hmm

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 42:03

that's, no, I'm, I'm very aware of where my opinion matters and where it doesn't. So I think that's, that's a tough one because you're just navigating that and figuring that out. And I will say, I'll be the first person to say, I, with my own privilege, I'm always, always growing,

[supdaily]: 42:23

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 42:23

learning, always aware that it is my responsibility to learn and grow there, but I don't need to be attacked. But at the same time they can be angry and they have the right to be angry. I just get to choose what I do with that anger.

[supdaily]: 42:38

Yeah, I guess the only reason I enter in those conversations is because those conversations tend to be about men, that consistently

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 42:48

Yeah.

[supdaily]: 42:48

about men, even in messages

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 42:50

Yeah.

[supdaily]: 42:50

that are supposed to empower women, there needs to be an aspect of criticizing men or putting men down. And like after the hundredth time of seeing it, I think it's pretty normal for me to be like, okay, who I have in my life, who I think are wonderful, and the response is usually, and I'm curious what you think about this, the responsibility, they say that if you weren't part of the problem, you wouldn't have a problem with me saying these things. Or because you are, because you have a problem with it, that means you're part of the issue. And I'm never quite sure how to respond to that because I don't feel I just don't like being generalized like any other human. So

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 43:43

Yeah.

[supdaily]: 43:43

can you give me perspective on that?

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 43:46

That's a dismissive statement that's basically ending the conversation.

[supdaily]: 43:49

Ah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 43:50

They're not interested in your feedback. They're not interested in what you have to say. They're not interested in your opinion. They're in survivor mode. They're telling you to fuck off. And you want to engage and you have to hear that and say it's extremely frustrating. Right? Like if

[supdaily]: 44:07

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 44:07

I was in a room and I was asking questions and I was curious and I felt like as a woman I was being generalized about or as a white woman I was being generalized about. generalized about, you know, and I was like, wait a second, I'm different, you know, like, sure. And the best way for me to demonstrate that I'm different is to role model it rather than argue with the person who is actively triggered.

[supdaily]: 44:31

Mm-hmm

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 44:32

It's not effective. And it's only going to further you into a place of feeling traumatized,

[supdaily]: 44:39

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 44:39

and them into a place of feeling justified. Then it doesn't really actually create any conversation. This goes with any conflict resolution. I mean, take it out of women and men. This is any political conflict. If you're going to argue with somebody whose nervous system is dysregulated, you're not going to actually have a conversation. You're just going to throw triggers at one another, and it's not effective in any way. And so that's the piece that's challenging, is I don't blame you for being frustrated that you're hearing consistently that men are evil and bad and wrong. That's not OK. I have a son. I can't I don't want

[supdaily]: 45:18

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 45:18

him to grow up in that world and I would say to him unfollow mute

[supdaily]: 45:23

Hmm.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 45:25

Follow

[supdaily]: 45:25

So.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 45:25

people that are inspiring you do something different

[supdaily]: 45:28

So when people are in that, there's just no talking to them. Because I'm

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 45:31

No,

[supdaily]: 45:31

not saying

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 45:31

there

[supdaily]: 45:31

I'm

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 45:31

isn't.

[supdaily]: 45:31

different. I don't go into these space and go, I'm different. What? To be clear,

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 45:36

Yeah,

[supdaily]: 45:36

I go in

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 45:36

yeah.

[supdaily]: 45:36

and say, hey, the words that you're saying hurt when I hear them.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 45:41

Yeah,

[supdaily]: 45:41

And

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 45:42

they're not open to hear that.

[supdaily]: 45:43

yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 45:43

They don't want to know, they don't care

[supdaily]: 45:45

It's like,

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 45:45

actually.

[supdaily]: 45:45

I think

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 45:45

The End

[supdaily]: 45:46

I just need to get rid of TikTok because that's the only place that I experience it. Because I don't go seeking it because

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 45:51

Yeah.

[supdaily]: 45:51

I used to. And maybe you have some perspective on this. Before therapy, I spent a lot of my time TikTok going after misogynists.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 46:01

Yeah.

[supdaily]: 46:01

That was what I did. And I would shame them and I would do all of those same things. And then I went through therapy and I noticed that that wasn't actually like solving anything. It wasn't creating understanding. It was actually doing more damage in the long run. So I took a step back from it. Where did, why did that shift happen to me? Was I moving on to a different stage? I can't

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 46:25

Yeah.

[supdaily]: 46:25

be an advocate in that world. I just completely agree with one side of the issue, which a toxic behavior comes from literally every genre of human on earth. Like there's no one is above being toxic. But why did my desire to enter that conversation just disappear? And I started to almost like retract from it. And I started to almost like retract from it. And I started to like retract from it. And I started to like retract from it.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 46:50

So you move from survivor to advocate. So

[supdaily]: 46:53

uh

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 46:53

you actually wanna create a meaningful conversation. You wanna create a meaningful change and you recognize that coming at people is not going to do that.

[supdaily]: 47:03

No.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 47:04

This is why those protests and the marches are so powerful and they are meaningful and they create attention, but then what?

[supdaily]: 47:14

Hmm.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 47:15

Then what needs to happen, right? Then we need the policies to change. Then we need people with a regulated nervous system in and speak to Congress and to like there's a point where we need to get angry and burn it all to the ground for sure. You know,

[supdaily]: 47:26

Yes.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 47:27

but like, and then what? So you're in the now what phase, but your

[supdaily]: 47:32

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 47:32

algorithm is still bringing you

[supdaily]: 47:34

I know. I

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 47:35

the

[supdaily]: 47:35

can-

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 47:35

other stuff.

[supdaily]: 47:36

I get

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 47:37

I'm

[supdaily]: 47:37

misogynist?

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 47:37

on healing tick tock. It's

[supdaily]: 47:38

I

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 47:38

great.

[supdaily]: 47:38

wish.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 47:39

I have, I don't get any of that. I,

[supdaily]: 47:42

I

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 47:42

I

[supdaily]: 47:42

get-

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 47:42

just have like somatic healers are doing cacao ceremonies in the jungles of Costa Rica. And I'm like, this is great.

[supdaily]: 47:47

I wish man, I got, I have both misogynist TikTok and angry feminist TikTok and I'm like, I don't, I don't, I don't know.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 47:56

Thank you. Thank you.

[supdaily]: 47:57

So I think, I think like something that I do in the mornings now, especially the first half hour, I don't touch my phone because

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 48:05

Good for you.

[supdaily]: 48:06

my

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 48:06

Yes.

[supdaily]: 48:06

brain is so malleable in that first part of the

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 48:09

Yes.

[supdaily]: 48:09

day that if I get a wrong message, it's setting the tone for the rest of the day and I'm just trying

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 48:14

Oh, 100%.

[supdaily]: 48:14

to stay out of it because

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 48:16

Yes.

[supdaily]: 48:16

I'm sensitive. Okay.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 48:18

Yes.

[supdaily]: 48:19

It's

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 48:19

Ha ha ha ha.

[supdaily]: 48:19

so annoying. I hate

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 48:19

Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha.

[supdaily]: 48:20

being sensitive sometimes. And people don't understand me because

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 48:24

Yeah.

[supdaily]: 48:24

as a man, you know, if I'm in my masculine and, and I'm supposed to be this like, I don't know, almost like Neanderthal and I just, I'm not like, I'm not

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 48:34

Please

[supdaily]: 48:34

interested.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 48:35

don't actually. We

[supdaily]: 48:36

Yeah,

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 48:36

don't want

[supdaily]: 48:36

pass

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 48:37

that.

[supdaily]: 48:37

on that. No. So, okay, let's get into the masculine and feminine conversation then. So,

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 48:43

Okay.

[supdaily]: 48:44

I'm watching people say, man, feminine woman. If I'm a woman in my masculine, I can't embrace my feminine until that man is the version of masculine that makes me feel safe and feminine. And I am, I'm trying to figure out how to how to exist. It's really confusing sometimes because these concepts to me are not male and female. I'm some I'm an example of someone who embraces both the feminine and masculine aspects of being a man. What is getting lost in this conversation about masculinity and femininity.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 49:22

So we're trying to do something that hasn't been done for a very, very long time in human history, which is have a very different kind of relationship with each other.

[supdaily]: 49:32

Hmm

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 49:32

And we're going to, I'm going to just make this heteronormative for a minute. Okay.

[supdaily]: 49:38

Mm-hmm.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 49:39

So in a heteronormative relationship in our culture, we are learning how to court and date and couple our parents and grandparents and media and what we see. I mean, we are observing creatures. So we're trying to emulate behavior that we see. And there are certain things that are attractive to our primal brains, our hind

[supdaily]: 50:09

Mm-hmm

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 50:09

brains, that are not as attractive to our frontal cortex. So

[supdaily]: 50:15

Oh.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 50:16

our higher thinking. So it's a bit of a combination here. And we have to kind of work higher thinking. This is where the term conscious relationship comes from.

[supdaily]: 50:27

Mmm.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 50:27

Right? Because what draws us primarily to someone we can figure out within 30 seconds of meeting them. It's an energetic, pheromone physicality about someone I can literally walk up to a guy within 30 seconds. I'll tell you right now whether or not I'll sleep with them.

[supdaily]: 50:42

Hmm

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 50:42

You don't have to say word literally just 30 seconds. And that's, it's how I feel in my body. It's a primal thing. And I'm not saying that can't be influenced by higher consciousness, because it can. But more likely than not, people are making decisions about at least sexual desire and physical desire within 30 seconds to a minute of meeting somebody.

[supdaily]: 51:06

Thank you. Thank you.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 51:06

Because it's a different part of our brain. So when we're talking about masculine and feminine, really we're talking about that piece when people are like a masculine man, a feminine woman. As a woman who was raised as a woman the 1986 on and with my evolutionary brain of still being a woman, biologically for myself, and I also identify as one. I want to feel a man's strength, anchored rootedness, leadership, energetic leadership, as well as like presence.

[supdaily]: 51:48

Mm-hmm

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 51:49

That's the softness to me is the presence. Like I see you. That in 30 seconds is like the biggest turn on. Okay. And that's masculine. That is a masculine energy that's coming towards me. If I'm meeting a man who's a little bit more in his feminine energy, when he's when I'm meeting him, he's a little bit more so feminine energy is a little more playful. It's a little more withdrawn, but not in like a cold way just in like a who are you

[supdaily]: 52:20

Mm-hmm

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 52:20

like a a little bit in that like peacocking, you know,

[supdaily]: 52:26

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 52:26

so like the men who peacock are definitely more in their feminine, which is kind of funny, but like, like, ooh, look, look at my pretty curled hair, you know,

[supdaily]: 52:33

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 52:33

like, but that's attractive to the masculine energy looking for the feminine energy. They want to be enticed, they want to be lured in, they want to be turned on, right? They that's the primal piece that we're looking for the polarity that we want in the lusting part

[supdaily]: 52:52

Mm-hmm.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 52:52

in a heteronormative relationship, that is typically what we want.

[supdaily]: 52:56

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 52:57

Okay, so this is the tough part for men, is they're like, well, wait a second, you want that initially, but then you want me to do all these things? And it's like, yes, we wanna trust that you've got us. You can rescue us out of a burning building. You can throw us against the wall. You can keep us safe when we're scared. And once we know that, we wanna have deep meaningful conversations with you. We wanna get to know your sensitive parts. We wanna hear about your emotional side. We wanna see your relationship with your mother. like we want all those other pieces. But if you can't keep me safe first...

[supdaily]: 53:29

Yeah, I guess in my experience, I am meeting people who want both at the same time. And that's where

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 53:35

And

[supdaily]: 53:35

it

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 53:35

that's...

[supdaily]: 53:35

gets really confusing for me. I can't be this, but also,

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 53:39

Thank you. Bye.

[supdaily]: 53:40

and I can't like, you know, that's where a lot of the survivor stuff in my experience is coming out where you want me to take care of you and all these things, but you also want me to leave you alone and you don't need me. And I don't know how to be in both places at the same time because it's literally not possible for me to be both.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 53:59

So you just have to learn a little bit what it actually means. Because I think it is, I think you are putting them on two opposite sides a bit too much in terms of how you can show up. Well, first of all, people who are coming to you and wanting you to be both at the same time aren't actually available. They're just giving you an unrealistic standard and that's their boundary.

[supdaily]: 54:18

So why talk

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 54:18

So just

[supdaily]: 54:18

to me?

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 54:20

because they're attracted to, because their primal brain is attracted, right?

[supdaily]: 54:23

Pass.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 54:24

But they're not interested. They're not

[supdaily]: 54:25

Okay.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 54:26

in a conscious relationship, right?

[supdaily]: 54:27

Got it.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 54:27

So you're looking for people who are conscious, which narrows it down. Sorry,

[supdaily]: 54:31

Yes.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 54:32

Chris. Okay.

[supdaily]: 54:33

Yes.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 54:34

So narrows it down. And then in those people, you feel the primal attraction and then you get curious.

[supdaily]: 54:41

Hmm.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 54:41

And that's when you play in the masculine and the feminine. But I'm telling you, I want to be pursued. I am a strong, powerful woman. I want to be pursued by a man.

[supdaily]: 54:53

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 54:54

I don't want to be today. I'm not trying to get chased. I want to be And I don't need that forever in our relationship forever, but in the initial stages of dating and courtship, I want to be pursued. I

[supdaily]: 55:05

Hmm.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 55:05

want him to make plans. I want him to lead. I want him to do these things. And I don't need him to be overly emotional and sensitive right off the bat. I actually want him to protect that part of himself until I have earned the right to hear it and see it because

[supdaily]: 55:20

Yes.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 55:21

that's what's safe for him and that's what's safe for me. And yes, I might be more a little more vulnerable than him at first. And yes, I might need him a little bit more at first. It doesn't mean I can't install my own ceiling fan, but it does mean I'd rather he do it.

[supdaily]: 55:35

Mm-hmm

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 55:35

Right? There's these... So it's nuance, and it's so important to have healthy conversation about it and to acknowledge what you want. I'm saying this as in, this is what I want. This is not what every woman wants, okay? And that's okay. This is what I want. This is what I have identified consciously as what I desire. I am powerful. arenas, I'd really like a partner that allows me to just like take a deep breath and say,

[supdaily]: 56:02

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 56:03

and he holds it up for a minute. That doesn't mean he has to hold it up all the time. It just means that he has the capacity to hold power at the same level I do.

[supdaily]: 56:11

I think what I think initially, before I went through a lot of the therapy that I did, I would use that emotional closeness immediately as a manipulation. Like I can look back at it now and say, I was trying to through sex and through emotional availability and presence,

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 56:28

Yes,

[supdaily]: 56:28

try

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 56:28

yeah.

[supdaily]: 56:29

to manipulate someone into valuing me because I didn't value myself. And I

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 56:33

Mm-hmm.

[supdaily]: 56:33

know that's not gendered either. But what I can look back and recognize that of course women ran from me because I was too too soon. Like what that's

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 56:43

Yeah.

[supdaily]: 56:43

a Brené Brown quote, like

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 56:45

Yes.

[supdaily]: 56:45

only share those aspects of yourself with someone who has earned the right to see them.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 56:49

Yes.

[supdaily]: 56:49

But I looked at me saying you have to earn the right to see that as me saying I don't care about you and you're beneath me in some way. And I wouldn't want anyone to ever think that it's really complicated. So I was going

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 57:01

Yeah.

[supdaily]: 57:01

through my because a lot of these stages you're talking about, again, we are talking about women in particular, but men and women both go through.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 57:11

Stay tuned. Stay

[supdaily]: 57:11

in

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 57:11

tuned.

[supdaily]: 57:12

just in different ways or in a lot of similar ways. So

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 57:15

Yes, it's a human being thing. It's a human thing. Yeah.

[supdaily]: 57:17

what are what are I mean in your practice especially like

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 57:21

Yeah.

[supdaily]: 57:21

did you have you worked with men? Okay,

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 57:24

Oh yeah, yeah.

[supdaily]: 57:25

what commonality do you see between what women talk about they want through their healing process and what men talk about what they want through the what's where mo where are places that you can see if we're in a right stage for that. and men can kind of

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 57:43

Hmm.

[supdaily]: 57:44

help support each other because they're experiencing something similar. Cause right now it feels very much like, I'm a woman, I experienced this and I'm the only one who experiences this

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 57:53

Hmm.

[supdaily]: 57:53

and men do the same thing, but I'm watching them have the same struggle, the same conversation, just with different languages. And so, I'm

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 57:57

Yeah.

[supdaily]: 57:57

going to go ahead and say that I'm going to be a woman, and I'm going to be a woman, and I'm going to

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 58:00

Yes.

[supdaily]: 58:00

be a woman, and I'm going to be a woman,

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 58:01

I think it all comes back to we want to be able to fully express ourselves, self-express, and feel like we belong.

[supdaily]: 58:09

Mm.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 58:10

And so if we cannot fully express ourselves and we sacrifice that in order to fit in or belong, then our trauma, our stuff that we're struggling with is around self-expression. If we overly self-express and don't feel like there's our connection is in finding a community and belonging. Are you familiar with Aubrey Marcus?

[supdaily]: 58:37

No.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 58:39

And Vilana, I think is his wife's name. They have a community called Fit for Service and they are brilliant with this kind of stuff. They do breath work, they do ceremonies, they do retreats, they bring on coaches, they bring on therapists. They've got a lot of plethora of resources relationship with his wife is a perfect example to me of what a conscious relationship looks like. And they've been through a lot. They both do their own work. She is like the epitome of like a powerful female woman and also sexy as hell. And he's the same in the masculine. It's like a really beautiful example of this. And they both have expressed working through their own issues of self-expression and belonging, right? And they find togetherness in that. And I mean, I would definitely go look them up because

[supdaily]: 59:32

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 59:32

they're incredible and I look at them and I say, that's what I want. And that is a great just beacon towards what I think we can do and what I think we're evolving to.

[supdaily]: 59:48

Hmm. Something that a behavior that I noticed within myself and, and notice within people that I know as well is it's like a jumping from like talking stage to talking stage with a bunch of people because they meet some sort of resistance and then they're like, well, I don't have to deal with this. I can go find this other person and start

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:00:11

Mm-hmm.

[supdaily]: 1:00:11

that process over again, but it seems to be a vicious cycle. Do you like what do you see in that? What do you see with why people why that happens with so many people where they just have almost like this idea of infinite options. And if they meet resistance

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:00:28

Mm-hmm.

[supdaily]: 1:00:28

in any way, shape or form, they can just move on to those options.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:00:32

Yeah, in terms of dating.

[supdaily]: 1:00:34

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:00:34

Yeah. Well, I think that is the nature of the way that we're dating right now, and it's extremely new to our brains

[supdaily]: 1:00:42

Mm-hmm.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:00:43

with the swiping features. And I can consistently pick up my phone and see other options. I don't have to get dressed, put makeup on, and go to my local pub to find someone. You know,

[supdaily]: 1:00:55

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:00:55

like I can literally sit in my Grinch pajamas and be like,

[supdaily]: 1:00:59

I love

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:00:59

you know.

[supdaily]: 1:01:00

your Grinch Pizamas. They're great.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:01:02

They're so soft. And so it feels like if there are people that we don't feel compatible with or something comes up that's like, I don't really like that. Then we go back to this place of like, well, I can find the absolute perfect match. So I'm going to go back on. And this is a fine line because I do firmly believe in not settling. I do firmly believe in knowing what you want and listening to your intuition. But I do think we're a little quick off. the bat

[supdaily]: 1:01:33

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:01:33

there. And women in particular, if men are giving us a little bit of like a resistance, if we're not being pursued,

[supdaily]: 1:01:41

Thank you. Thank you.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:01:42

we are more likely to go elsewhere. Right? Like, for me, I don't need to, if somebody is like super into me, and they're like actively pursuing me, and then they take a pause because something happens or they need to evaluate, that's fine as long as they communicate it, right?

[supdaily]: 1:02:00

Mm.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:02:02

If they're not actively pursuing me, I just will continue to look elsewhere because I don't want to waste my time, but also I just don't know if they're available or not. Like it just, for me, that's telling me they're unavailable. That doesn't mean that I wouldn't be interested if they started to pursue, but it's the pursuing that I think gets my attention a little bit more. And I would say that can be

[supdaily]: 1:02:28

Thank you.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:02:28

common for a lot of women, my age at least.

[supdaily]: 1:02:31

Yeah. You talk about on your social media having the concept of interdependence. Like we've talked about,

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:02:42

Mm-hmm.

[supdaily]: 1:02:43

we've talked about like hyper independence and I've heard of code dependent. How does someone identify if they're in an interdependent connection with somebody?

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:02:54

Oh, great question. Okay, so an interdependent relationship means that you are able to self-regulate, have good ownership, can take care of your basic needs,

[supdaily]: 1:03:13

Thank you. Thank you.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:03:14

can handle things if it goes sour, right? Like you can just, you can handle your own stuff. You are self-sufficient to a degree, work better in partnership

[supdaily]: 1:03:26

Hmm.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:03:27

and that you can't do everything alone. And in fact, this other person does some things better and you allow them to do those things, just like they allow you to do some of those things for them. And you live in this beautiful symbiotic relationship where you're still holding, you're responsible for your own nervous system, but you're really like letting this person serve you, help you be part of your life. in a way that is vulnerable.

[supdaily]: 1:03:57

Yeah, people are often identify getting help from someone as weakness. Like

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:04:04

Hmm

[supdaily]: 1:04:04

I should be able to do this myself. And I realize as I get older, like we can't do this by ourselves. It's like there's a reason that isolation is used as punishment. You know, like

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:04:13

Yeah, yeah.

[supdaily]: 1:04:14

it's, it's really damaging. I feel too,

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:04:18

it

[supdaily]: 1:04:18

it's,

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:04:18

is.

[supdaily]: 1:04:18

it's isolating, but you're also like, I guess just doing the best that you can in those, in those moments.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:04:25

You are, yes,

[supdaily]: 1:04:26

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:04:26

exactly.

[supdaily]: 1:04:27

So. So say someone is stuck. I see this quite

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:04:29

Mm-hmm.

[supdaily]: 1:04:30

often, especially victim stage, stuck in that victim stage, can't drag themselves out.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:04:36

Mm-hmm.

[supdaily]: 1:04:36

What guidance do you have for someone who is like trying to clamor for anything to get them out of that victim stage of their healing? So,

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:04:45

Yeah, to shift into survivor. To get out of victim, you need self-ownership.

[supdaily]: 1:04:51

What does

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:04:52

You

[supdaily]: 1:04:52

that

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:04:52

gotta

[supdaily]: 1:04:52

look

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:04:52

look,

[supdaily]: 1:04:52

like?

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:04:53

that looks like, well, number one, I just don't think you should do any of this alone.

[supdaily]: 1:04:58

Hmm

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:04:59

So that's number one for me. Like you've just gotta find support. If you can't pay for support, which I understand, like try and find somebody who is not in the victim stage

[supdaily]: 1:05:09

Yes.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:05:09

to just be able to hold space for you, okay? To work through like, what is my part in this? But this is really shitty that this happened, but what is my part in this moving forward?

[supdaily]: 1:05:20

Now, sometimes when that conversation gets brought up, like your accountability or

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:05:27

Thank you.

[supdaily]: 1:05:27

your part in it, it gets looked at as victim blaming. The End

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:05:31

Well, it depends on who's saying that to. If you're saying that to yourself, it's a very different conversation

[supdaily]: 1:05:36

than

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:05:36

than

[supdaily]: 1:05:36

if

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:05:36

somebody

[supdaily]: 1:05:36

someone

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:05:36

saying,

[supdaily]: 1:05:36

else's.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:05:38

yeah, if I'm inviting it in, if I'm saying, hey, I need to find out where my ownership is in

[supdaily]: 1:05:42

Mm-hmm

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:05:42

here, can you help me? It's very different than someone being like, hey, I know you just got hit by that car, but you should look both ways. That's kind of like, you know. I'm not sure if you're saying that, but I'm not sure if

[supdaily]: 1:05:48

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:05:48

you're saying that. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure.

[supdaily]: 1:05:51

I think often in the interaction, this is a phrase that I had to learn myself. Cause as a man, I am generally very solution based and,

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:05:59

Mm-hmm

[supdaily]: 1:05:59

uh, you give me a problem and I want to fix it. And I noticed that in my interactions that, you know, my female friends would bring those things to me and I would try to fix it. And then they would get really upset with me. And my male brain is just like, what? You, you

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:06:11

Yeah.

[supdaily]: 1:06:11

have a problem and I want to help you get to the other end of it, but now you're upset with me. So I had to learn the phrase. Do you. Do you want me to just hold space for you? Uh, or do you want solutions and I allow

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:06:23

Yes.

[supdaily]: 1:06:23

them to let me know so that I can best show up for them in whatever they need in that moment? I think that question's really important

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:06:31

Yes, and it's important for women to clarify as well. It's on you to ask, but it's also them to clarify.

[supdaily]: 1:06:36

Yeah,

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:06:37

Let's

[supdaily]: 1:06:37

for

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:06:37

do

[supdaily]: 1:06:37

sure.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:06:37

both, please. That's again, conscious relationship work. Yeah, it's to get out of these stages and to get out of the victim stage in particular, it's self-ownership, it's support, and it's activating anger, right?

[supdaily]: 1:06:54

Mm-hmm

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:06:54

It's letting yourself be like, I am powerful. I can do this. I will get to the other side It's activating that part of you. And sometimes you just need to be seen and validated as a victim

[supdaily]: 1:07:08

Mm-hmm.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:07:08

to get to that stage.

[supdaily]: 1:07:09

Yeah. As someone who, um, did experience sexual assault and wasn't believed, I, it's like that I wasn't acknowledged as a victim and that created anger in itself.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:07:22

Yeah,

[supdaily]: 1:07:23

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:07:23

yeah.

[supdaily]: 1:07:24

Because

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:07:24

Exactly.

[supdaily]: 1:07:24

you just, you feel that also played on my worthiness that I struggle with

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:07:28

Mm-hmm.

[supdaily]: 1:07:29

in general. So that was not a good time. Uh, I have

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:07:33

No.

[supdaily]: 1:07:33

a few questions from my Patreon folks. If you're down to answer. They

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:07:37

Yeah,

[supdaily]: 1:07:37

were, they

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:07:37

I'm

[supdaily]: 1:07:37

were.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:07:37

here for it.

[supdaily]: 1:07:38

So if

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:07:38

Absolutely.

[supdaily]: 1:07:38

any of you are interested in asking questions to people I have on my podcast unfiltered friends uh pot patreon.com unfiltered friends um Hallie wants to know what struggles are universal when it comes to healing in your perspective

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:07:55

Mmm. I think. allowing somebody all the way in,

[supdaily]: 1:08:06

Thank you.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:08:06

like

[supdaily]: 1:08:06

Bye.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:08:07

radical honesty with yourself and someone else

[supdaily]: 1:08:10

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:08:10

is a universal struggle to healing.

[supdaily]: 1:08:12

Yeah, people do not like pointing the finger at themselves. It doesn't feel good, but it

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:08:16

Yeah.

[supdaily]: 1:08:16

also there's so much in power. I found that once I started, like even me telling you, like my behavior was manipulative. There is empowerment once you just admit it to yourself. I find a lot of people kind of white knuckle holding on to their reality, even though it's

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:08:30

Yeah.

[supdaily]: 1:08:30

not maybe accurate to what they're witnessing. And then maybe they're just not ready.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:08:35

Oh, I'm like the queen of it. My best friend is an astrologer and she's like, do you want truth? So you're ready for it? Or should I just hold this for when you're at rock bottom and you're ready to receive it? And I was like, give it to me now and then you can say that you knew later. I'm like. I'm like, I'm

[supdaily]: 1:08:45

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:08:46

like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like,

[supdaily]: 1:08:51

I get in

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:08:51

Thank

[supdaily]: 1:08:51

trouble

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:08:51

you. Bye.

[supdaily]: 1:08:51

with that sometimes too, or I'm just like, Hey, I'm going to

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:08:54

Yeah.

[supdaily]: 1:08:54

tell you what I think is going to help you, not what's going to feel good.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:08:57

Yeah,

[supdaily]: 1:08:57

And

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:08:57

yeah.

[supdaily]: 1:08:57

you just got to make sure you're talking to the right people,

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:09:01

Yes,

[supdaily]: 1:09:02

people

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:09:02

exactly.

[supdaily]: 1:09:02

we have like real connections with.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:09:04

Yes.

[supdaily]: 1:09:05

Liz wants to know, how do I heal myself while including my husband?

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:09:11

Hmm, that's a beautiful question. I think you take responsibility for regulating your own nervous system and your own experiences separate from him. And communicate to him when you're in a regulated place, some of the ways that he can a help you regulate co regulate

[supdaily]: 1:09:37

Thank you. Thank you.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:09:38

and be ways he actually to your dysregulation. Men want a problem they can solve.

[supdaily]: 1:09:47

Yep.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:09:48

So provide them with something they can solve. I need you to do this when this happens. I need you to do this when this happens. And they are like, check, check.

[supdaily]: 1:09:59

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:09:59

And then you sit down and I would say I would schedule time, especially if you have kids, a schedule time separate from kids about once a week, where you check in with one It's not in that moment. You give him space to share anything that's coming up for him or anything he needs

[supdaily]: 1:10:18

Mm-hmm.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:10:18

or anything that's going on for you in your healing process that may actually be contributing to his dysregulation. You need to make sure you're in a good place to receive it. You need to make sure that, you know, I always say include a professional in this, but we can't always do that, right? So just say like this is his half hour. This is I am going to say, okay, yeah, when I get really reactive after my therapy session, That does suck for you and the kids. And I'm sorry about that. I'm

[supdaily]: 1:10:45

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:10:45

not in a space where I'm explaining why. I'm just like, okay, yeah, I validate that. And then really have designated time where you can again, give him updates and let him know how to help you and let him know what his role is. They want to help. They want to make you feel better. They want you to be the happiest woman in the world. Like that is a strong desire for men to take care of you and to make sure that you're okay, but not at the sacrifice of themselves.

[supdaily]: 1:11:11

Yeah, I find that

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:11:12

So...

[supdaily]: 1:11:12

like, I find that in those conversations where like a struggle is happening, the desire to hear you say anything is pretty minuscule. So it's eventually

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:11:22

Yeah.

[supdaily]: 1:11:23

you just kind of give up on showing up because it's just going to be

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:11:27

Yeah.

[supdaily]: 1:11:28

but something that I started doing in my friendships and in my romantic relationship is, is I'm particularly intuitive and I pay attention to like people's behaviors. And so if

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:11:37

Thank you.

[supdaily]: 1:11:37

I see someone gets to a certain point, like say they, they have I wait till they get to a point where they're not feeling anxious. And then I say, Hey, I noticed this behavior. When you are in that stage, when you are feeling that way, what is the best way for me to show up for you? But you have to do it when they're not in that stage because they're not in a place where they can tell you. And I found that having that tool in my belt to understand, okay, now I see that she's already instructed me on how to show up for her has been really successful.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:12:07

Absolutely. Absolutely.

[supdaily]: 1:12:10

Yeah. How do I change the messaging in my mind around shame? The phrase, it's not your fault doesn't work for me. She's like, I know, I know it's not my fault, but that phrase doesn't help me. I'm not saying that I'm not. I'm saying that I'm not. I'm saying that I'm not.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:12:22

Yeah

[supdaily]: 1:12:22

I'm saying that I'm not. I'm saying that I'm not. I'm saying that I'm not. I'm saying that I'm

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:12:25

Yeah.

[supdaily]: 1:12:25

not. I'm saying that I'm not.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:12:27

So I'm gonna lean on Brené here, Brené Brown. Shame is I'm a bad person. I'm a bad mom, I'm a bad wife. I'm inherently bad. Something about me is bad. Guilt is I made a mistake here and I need to learn from it. I did something and I don't wanna do it again. So if you're experiencing shame, it's getting to the core of really understanding that you're a good person who made a mistake or you're a good person where a bad thing happened to. And what about you is inherently lovable and worthy and good. And it can be as simple as like when I walk into a room, I smile at people and it makes me feel good inside and it makes me feel like I'm contributing to the world in a good way. It can be I absolutely just feel the worth and love inside my body. I'm inherently worthy and lovable and I'm going to tap into that. to help us understand why bad things happen. And children always think that bad things happen because there's something wrong with them. That's just what happens like neurobiologically for them, and this is where the shame begins. And so we have to undo that as an adult, and it just takes time.

[supdaily]: 1:13:45

Mm-hmm

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:13:46

It is definitely not something that can happen overnight.

[supdaily]: 1:13:50

No, a lot of it has to do with initially just changing the conversation that you have with yourself about yourself,

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:13:57

Crack.

[supdaily]: 1:13:57

which is harder, which is very difficult to do when you've, it's almost like you've entrenched yourself in this idea of who you are. And then instead of changing the conversation, it's much easier to find things in your environment to validate what you already feel about yourself, even if it's inaccurate.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:14:12

correct?

[supdaily]: 1:14:13

So

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:14:14

Yes.

[supdaily]: 1:14:14

I feel you, Hallie. Okay, last

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:14:16

Ha ha ha

[supdaily]: 1:14:16

question.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:14:16

ha.

[supdaily]: 1:14:20

I've liked romantically in my past has never reciprocated how I felt about them. How do I stop the effect of that being seeing myself as unworthy of love?

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:14:36

Mmm, Yvonne, I hear you. That's a really tough one.

[supdaily]: 1:14:42

Thank you. Thank you.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:14:43

And it doesn't feel good, period. So I just wanna say that, right? It just doesn't feel good. You're picking the wrong people. I'll say that right, your picker's off.

[supdaily]: 1:14:52

Mm-hmm.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:14:53

It's not that you aren't lovable, it's that the person that you're picking typically is unavailable or unhealthy or really just not the right fit, right, not compatible. is you've become attached, you've probably self-sacrificed a little bit in order to prove your love to them. And so now in order to feel good about that self-sacrifice, you need them to come back and love you to feel okay about what you did. And that typically never happens, right? Nobody can make up for the amount of self-sacrifice that we give in order to prove our love to someone.

[supdaily]: 1:15:34

Hmm.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:15:36

So it's so important to start with the relationship you have with yourself and to say, okay, if I'm doing this in relationship with someone else,

[supdaily]: 1:15:46

Thank you.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:15:46

I'm probably already doing this in a relationship with myself as well. How am I not showing myself that I'm worthy?

[supdaily]: 1:15:55

Mm-hmm.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:15:55

How am I not choosing me? Because if I continue to do that, I am reflecting back into the world that this is how I should be treated.

[supdaily]: 1:16:05

Mm-hmm

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:16:06

So I would say take a deep breath, evaluate your self-relationship, and then get back out there and change your picker a little bit.

[supdaily]: 1:16:15

Mm-hmm

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:16:16

And you will probably find someone who cannot wait to love you in the ways that you deserve to be loved.

[supdaily]: 1:16:23

Yeah, I think I would find myself more attracted to people who didn't reciprocate how I felt about them and people who were showing up as unattractive. It was almost like that seeking of worthiness. If I can get this person, if I can get this person who's being difficult and not reciprocating to like me, well, then I am a worthwhile person. I'm an attractive person. And I just,

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:16:49

Yeah.

[supdaily]: 1:16:49

I would find myself just so upset all the time because I was pursuing

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:16:53

Yeah.

[supdaily]: 1:16:53

people who never wanted me to begin with. It's

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:16:56

No.

[supdaily]: 1:16:56

like

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:16:56

And

[supdaily]: 1:16:56

a weird game.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:16:58

it is a very weird game and they're doing it to themselves too, right? So

[supdaily]: 1:17:01

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:17:01

it's not, it's, it's a really tough one and it's really hard and you're not alone in this. There's so many of us who do this. So just know you are, you are worthy of love very much so. And

[supdaily]: 1:17:10

Thank you.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:17:10

it's just a challenge to prove that to yourself first and you just do it one baby step at a time.

[supdaily]: 1:17:18

So say someone is listening to this and they're listening to your words about like the stages you're in and how you progress through them and they're experiencing frustration because they don't feel like they have either the capacity to or they feel stuck and they're not sure how to move forward. What guidance would you give them to get them out of the mindset that keeps them stuck where they are? I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:17:45

Stuckness is interesting, right? Because sometimes being stuck is actually serving us.

[supdaily]: 1:17:51

Hmm.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:17:51

So I would want you to ask the question, how is being stuck serving me? Is it keeping me from actually experiencing these hard emotions that I know will be disruptive? Is it keeping me from making a tough decision like divorce or leaving my job? Or we're stuck sometimes because the path that we need to go down is scarier than being stuck.

[supdaily]: 1:18:16

Thank you.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:18:17

So how is the stuckness serving you? And then I think it's good to just say how uncomfortable do I wanna get?

[supdaily]: 1:18:24

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:18:25

How uncomfortable do I need this to be before I can get unstuck?

[supdaily]: 1:18:29

that discomfort

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:18:29

And

[supdaily]: 1:18:29

is where you grow.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:18:31

yes, and I'm one that loves to be really uncomfortable.

[supdaily]: 1:18:35

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:18:35

I pushed that to the very edge. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha.

[supdaily]: 1:18:37

So

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:18:37

Ha

[supdaily]: 1:18:37

maybe

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:18:38

ha ha. Ha

[supdaily]: 1:18:38

a

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:18:38

ha ha.

[supdaily]: 1:18:38

balance, maybe

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:18:39

Ha ha

[supdaily]: 1:18:39

a

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:18:39

ha.

[supdaily]: 1:18:39

balance

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:18:39

Ha ha ha.

[supdaily]: 1:18:39

of

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:18:39

Ha ha

[supdaily]: 1:18:39

like

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:18:40

ha.

[supdaily]: 1:18:40

stepping out of comfort, but not like thrusting yourself into the volcano.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:18:44

Yes, exactly.

[supdaily]: 1:18:46

Okay,

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:18:46

Exactly.

[supdaily]: 1:18:46

that's that's great. So if people are inspired by you and they want to reach out to you, where's the best place for them to do that?

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:18:55

Best place is going to be Instagram in my DMs, the evolved therapist. I am answering them. I'm not like a crazy influencer that has 8 million people, so I will see your stuff.

[supdaily]: 1:19:08

Good

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:19:10

Maybe one day. But Instagram is really the place to go. I've got a lot of different things I'm doing, a lot of different access points to me, different price points, you know. So I have something for anybody that's looking to get out of this. place and it does just start sometimes with resources and the right person and so I'd love for you to come on over there. I am on TikTok too.

[supdaily]: 1:19:31

Yeah, I know. I'm witnessing your your your foray. It's a weird place. It's very different.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:19:36

It is

[supdaily]: 1:19:36

Yeah,

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:19:36

a weird place. It is.

[supdaily]: 1:19:38

I

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:19:38

It's

[supdaily]: 1:19:38

do.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:19:38

fun.

[supdaily]: 1:19:38

I do want to say thank you.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:19:41

Yeah.

[supdaily]: 1:19:42

I have experienced a lot of pain from women who are in these stages, but I also have a bunch of wonderful relationships with women and I always seek understanding. And when they're in these stages and I now know that they're just not in a place where they can receive even sort any sort of interaction with me because my my

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:20:01

Bye.

[supdaily]: 1:20:02

intention is always understanding. And I

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:20:05

Yeah.

[supdaily]: 1:20:06

really appreciate having a safe place to bounce these ideas off where you understand that my intention is not from malice, but from the desire to understand and also show up for the women that I have in my life who are struggling in a lot of ways. So I really appreciate that. I really appreciate that.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:20:23

Absolutely. I appreciate you showing up and wanting to understand

[supdaily]: 1:20:26

Yeah.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:20:27

and allowing me to hold space for that and talk it through. It's

[supdaily]: 1:20:30

And

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:20:30

been

[supdaily]: 1:20:30

yeah,

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:20:30

absolutely lovely.

[supdaily]: 1:20:31

well thanks for being on Unfiltered Friends.

[coco_nelson_ma_lpc_emdr]: 1:20:34

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for having me on.